In this brilliant episode, Steve Brown reveals the biggest trap entrepreneurs and marketers fall into and leads us around it by sharing the best marketing strategy for every business growth stage! If you’ve ever felt frustrated by the effectiveness of your marketing efforts, you won’t want to miss a moment of this episode!
Scott Ritzheimer
Well hello, everybody. Hello and welcome. Today I am with a friend of old. Now even though we don’t get to spend too much time together, I met Steve when I got to join his podcast, I think a few years ago now at this point, it doesn’t feel like it’s been that long. But Steve and I are fellow story branders. We may talk about that a little bit. But Steve Brown more than that has 10 years of internet marketing and business development experience. He’s the Managing Member of ROI online LLC, they’re in Amarillo, Texas as hot there this time of year, I would imagine. And ROI online is an internet marketing agency. It’s geared towards small to medium sized businesses and organizations and specializes in helping clients plan and execute a successful internet marketing strategy. All kinds of qualifications that go with that. Suffice it to say, Steve Brown is a really cool guy. And he wrote a really funny title book that I actually really like as well. So I’ll leave it to him to kind of to share with what he will. But Steve, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, I don’t know that you might call yourself a classic coach in the sense of the word, but from what I know about what you do, it’s every bit of that. So tell us how you got into what it is you do, how you got into what it is that you do and why.
Steve Brown
So I started off, I was always in a sales position. Many the companies that I worked for it sales is difficult, I would assume that role I was really good at and that’s where I would excel. And these, you know, after maybe I did, you know, generally it was four year stints at different companies. In the last two companies, I served in a position of sales, I took some time to go and revamp our website. And when I revamped it, I made sure that I put forms on there. And you know, back in the day, back in the day, this is 15 years ago, whatever sales use was cold call centric, right? You just go and knock on 10 doors, and maybe one would even care about what you’re talking about. And that was like a good day. Right? And but when I went and worked on the website, I realized that when people filled out a form on the website that I was closing two out of three of those on average, as opposed to one out of 10 and cold calls. Yeah. And so it became something that was I was a little bit progressive, the business owners didn’t get it. And they felt maybe I was trying to avoid cold calling. Well, the truth was I was because it was absurd. Okay, my time is worth my think about it. If you’re paying me as a salesperson, you don’t, don’t you want me in front of people who are halfway interested, then my close ratio would go way up, right. But in that world, people didn’t think that way. Well, then the next job I have, I ended up working for a web design firm. And I was on the other side of the coin. And what I kept seeing from all the business owners that would come in, they would say a little bit differently. But if you translated the common theme in the request, it went like this, it was like, I think I need to redo my website. I don’t know how to go about it, I need someone I can trust. But bottom line, I have an expectation that this investment of my time, I never expected I’d be a web designer when I’m running a plumbing company or a law firm. And yet, I feel compelled to do this, because of my customers and prospects are expecting me to have a legitimate online platform. Yeah. And when I realized there was this common theme, then if I would have been in their shoes, so it was more obvious because I had been in their shoes to go and upgrade my I didn’t know how to convey it. And here I was on the other side listening to them. And that’s when the light bulb went off. For me. This is where I belong. This is my little special place. And so several years later, I finally like I had to do the thing that all business owners do is like pony up, put my money where my mouth is and step out and start my own business and that’s really scary. Yeah, but I but I did. And it’s always been my heart in it, you read my book, my heart is for that business person that was stupid enough to start a business and yet risk their family’s future their future. Why? Because they’re, they think they can do this better than the other options that are available. That’s who my heart is for. I’m one of them. Right? And so I knew that they’re having to go through this scary forest of internet marketing and a website and MailChimp and, and will all these other things that don’t make sense and how do they connect together and they just needed someone to trust and it through it. And that’s, that’s why I started ROI online.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love that. My favorite definition of an entrepreneur is someone who is willing to work, stop working 40 hours for someone else to go work 80 hours for themselves and make nothing. Exactly. That’s basically how it starts, you know? And that’s funny. So I love that. Go ahead.
Steve Brown
I’m wondering, you know what my definition of a real entrepreneur is? Yes, go for it. It’s someone who can’t spell entrepreneur. That’s a real entrepreneurs, someone that can’t spell it, but they’re out and doing it. I love that.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s awesome. I love that. We can thank the French for the spelling of entrepreneur, you know what entrepreneur means?
Steve Brown
No.
Scott Ritzheimer
To go between, to go to the space in between, is basically what it means. And so entrepreneurs have that like, just like you’re saying, like they they’re bold enough to say, this can be better. And I love it. I really do. Well, that’s cool. So are I online? helping people navigate the world of digital marketing? And what all that looks like doing it? I might add from a sales perspective, right? I think that’s one of the places where a lot of people struggle with is like, I don’t care if we’ve got likes on Facebook, I want to sell something right now, if likes on Facebook, sell something great, I’ll do that. But I want to see sales happen. Right? And so I love your approach in that respect. So tell us a little bit more like in that world, what would you say is the most important thing that you’re doing for your clients?
Steve Brown
You know, so that that book behind you Predictable Success? The biggest epiphany that I got from that book, and there was a lot but the biggest one was, when I’m talking to business, it helps me discern where they are in that lifecycle of a business. Are they in? Are they in the fund stage? Are they in Whitewater stage? Are they in the you know, the struggle stage, and then I can align my suggestions, my coaching, to really be more impactful. And because I think that’s a trap most marketers if you, you go to them, Hey, I need some help with the marketing. Yes, we do this kind of marketing lesson. And I’m good at it, let’s do it for you. And they’re not totally clear on if it is really a good fit for you or what stage you are, or they would address it. Right?
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s so so true. I’m so glad you say that. Because if I say that I get in trouble. But you said it. So we get to go there. It’s 100% the case. And you know, I’ve seen this happen again, I did some work in the marketing space. And you know, there’s a joke 50% of marketing works, we just don’t know which which 50% It is, right? Well, when some of that is the creative process, okay, that’s fine. You got to work through and iterate and everything like that. But a significant portion of it is, are you addressing the things that need to be addressed at those individual stages, because if you’re doing branding work in early struggle, right, you don’t have enough revenue coming in to pay the bills, and you’re doing branding work for the long term, like the chances of you running out of cash before you get the sales that you want with that kind of a strategy. They just don’t work. So let’s play with that for a second. So someone who’s in early struggle, right, the existential fight for survival got to get this business off the ground. What do they need to know from a sales and marketing standpoint?
Steve Brown
All right, so anything that they’re creating at that moment should complement the sales process. So you know, and let’s say that give me an example of a business you want to, you want to use that as an example.
Scott Ritzheimer
So we want to start a let’s think of a good one, a flavored water fountain service.
Steve Brown
Okay. So here we are, we’ve for some reason, we started this business and we’re in the we’re in the very vulnerable starting of this phase. And we have to first figure out where where’s our sweet spot, but we’re not going to learn that we think we know where it is, but we’re not going to learn it till we have some at bats, right. And so the things that you need immediately aren’t necessarily name recognition, they’re not they’re not great emails, or whatever you need stuff that can help you have a conversation and immediately give the vision of why your product is a perfect fit. Assuming it is a perfect fit in that situation. So you walk into I don’t know a slot skis or whatever and you you see they don’t have a flavored water solution. Well, that’s a franchise so you’re gonna have a long sales process with them. So you you’d go I need to do this more on a more Mom and Pop type situation. So you need information that helps them see what’s in it for them and how it’s going to help them I’m not how many years you’ve been in business, not any of that. They just need to see how it’s going to help them. Well, that’s a sales support. You know, when the problem is that folks that are these entrepreneurs we were joking about, right? The words marketing, sales, branding, positioning, they all mean the same thing. You know, one saying marketing and the other one’s thinking, you know, a different thing, you know, one saying tomato, the other one’s thinking, I don’t know, elephant and, and they think they’re talking about the same thing. So, in that moment, you need sales support materials. Now you gotta go to someone, that’s, that’s creative. But more importantly, and that the number one challenge that every business owner, every leader every parent has, is to communicate clearly what’s in your head. To the other folks, we’ve all heard that you got to say at seven times before they hear what you’re saying, okay? And so what’s your, your super competitive advantage is to get your message super clear, that helps connect the dots fast. Once you get those sales going, then you have the luxury of Alright. Now let’s start getting ahead of this. Now we’re out of this survival mode. In my book, I talk. Remember that show? Survivor guy? Yeah, so this guy named last, I think they would drop him in somewhere, and they pick him up in a week. So what was his primary thing? Just make it for seven days. Okay? That, that means you don’t really you just have have need minimal shelter, maybe some water, you can fast for the whole week and don’t freeze to death. Okay, that’s all you need. Well, that’s where in your in that struggle stage, that’s the way we’re thinking. We just need to make it month, another month and pay the bills and see if we can make it another month. And that’s why I’m saying you need sales stuff, you need something to get, I need a bowl for water so I can, that’s when I’m I’m wanting to really communicate.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s fantastic. I love that you need sales support materials, right? You’ve got to get out there. And the other thing I think that you said is so true is you’ve got to have conversations, because it’s not just the opportunity to pitch which a conversation is one of the highest value ways of doing that. It’s the highest touch. But you’re also the best folks that have seen do this are not only communicating out, right? They’re listening as well. They’re listening, they’re adapting, they’re seeing where folks are, they’re watching how their words land and dialing that in. And each conversation is hard to do over the phone, right? It’s hard to do in an email thread. It’s hard to do on social media. And so I love that I think that’s great. So let’s, let’s kind of let’s take the next step here. We get into a couple mom and pops, we got a couple early wins, we’re moving into fine, we’re starting to ramp things up a little bit. What do we need in our sales and marketing at that point?
Steve Brown
Yeah, now you need to start setting up a system because a you’re you’ve survived, right. And so when we think about view, you’re transitioning from camping, to setting up some property building a cabin, so to speak, right. And so that’s where your systems come into play. Imagine someone building a cabin, well, they’re going to set up a nice table, they’re going to have a saw, they’re going to have a way to you know, cut the wood over and over repeatedly to do what build out the walls. And all of those things, same thing digitally. And internally, what I call systems, you know, my book, basically is to say, don’t see a website, see a system. And that’s what you need to be focusing on then is like these repeatable, scalable systems, that A can empower the folks that buy into you, your employees that can service the prospects that buy into you and believe that you can provide solution they been hoping to find. Yeah, well, we get excited. And we say yes. And then we stumble and mess it up, and then they regret that you made. That’s why systems can be so powerful. And that’s, I think people are slow to realize, oh, I should start getting such systems now. Because that system, once in place, is like a piece of equipment. This asset that you purchased, will start to depreciate, you know, over time, but man you’re going to generate a lot of business is going to come off of that system is going to spin off that right. That’s the next thing.
Scott Ritzheimer
I love that. So we’ve gotten a system in place to really start we feel like we’re scaling up but we’re really growing right? We’re growing by addition. Things are going good fun is fun, right? We’re making money, and then we start we start having Trouble again in this whitewater stage, and what I’ve seen a lot of folks do, especially when I was doing marketing work is that’s when they would come and ask for help. Because in fun a lot of times it’s like we know enough. We’re selling enough. It’s great. And in Whitewater, I found that they tried to sell their way out of Whitewater. Right? They tried to, but everything they sell, it’s, you know, they’re losing it on the back end, because they’re not doing good work. They’re, they’re under hired or they’re over hired, or, you know, they’re losing it out the back door. So what do you say to someone in that whitewater period is really challenging under the weight of the growth that they’ve produced? What should they do from a sales and marketing perspective?
Steve Brown
Alright, so now you’re needing the so you got these people that bought in you got some employees, you got to customers, and, and it’s getting scary, the wheels are shaking, you know, you’re it’s coming at you real fast, you know, and it is scary. And so now is like a great time, you got all these people that are paddling, I imagine your employees are in canoes. Each one has a canoe. And you guys talked at the shore before you launched and and you pointed toward you said we’re going over across the lake? Well, about halfway through the lake, everyone’s at different angles. They’re going to the other side of the lake, just not the same point. Now, why is that? Because you have to clearly give that vision where we’re where everyone’s rowing so that all the energy is online and are complementary. You’ll have conversations, if you don’t do this show, I have a conversation with someone. They’re working hard. They’re excited to be here. They you know, they love the culture. And it’s a shock to both of you. That no, this is not what I want. Remember that conversation with your spouse one day, you came home, you’re so excited. You had maybe had tickets, maybe and tickets, like you put the tickets down and you said, Look, baby, look what I got. I got these tickets to Disneyland. And she looks at you like you’re crazy. Well, what do you mean, you got tickets to Disneyland? We talked about it the other day, honey, you wanted to go to Disneyland? She says no. I said Disney World. That’s the conversations that you end up with clients. Yeah.
Scott Ritzheimer
And that she has tickets to Orlando.
Steve Brown
And youre going to LA right. So oh, that’s that’s like shocking. But you had you had fun. You had a great meeting, you left thinking you’re the same page and you end up you find out you’re going to different directions? Yes. Well, whose fault is that the leaders, they didn’t clearly communicate the exact point on the horizon that we’re going not what once once is not enough. It has to be over and over and over. Well, guess what? That takes some internal work that you have to do to decide confidently where we’re going. Yeah, that’s the hardest job of ever, and then putting it into a picture. And a picture that goes in their mind where their brains can buy in, click in and support you like they want to.
Scott Ritzheimer
It’s so true. And hearing this coming from, you know, marketing, sales and marketing is just fantastic. Because so many of them miss it. So many just say, well, here, we can help you do drive harder, push faster, sell more. And what you’ve so clearly articulated is you don’t necessarily need to go after more external customers, you start to have to recognizing internal customers. You don’t have to necessarily push the pedal to the metal and marketing outside. You do that in front of predictable success. When you’re in Whitewater. You’ve got to get real crystal crystal clear on who’s with you right and and where you’re taking them and how clear they are on that. I love that. It’s the best whitewater marketing advice I’ve heard, especially someone from your industry say so I love that. This is gold, folks. I mean, it’s genuinely gold. So let’s say we do that get into predictable success. We’ve got all the canoes pointed across the the boat. It’s a bigger organization now and we’re kind of looking at well, you know, are we bumping into market share limits? Should we go to another region? What are we doing there from a marketing perspective?
Steve Brown
So, here’s where, at this point, at least for me, this is where I recognize I had to outrun my coverage, so to speak, as far as I’m inclined to run a tiger team a small, you know, can turn on a dime or whatever, but to lead, you know, a larger team. I’m running out of my covers, that means you have to introduce someone else that come in and take the baton and carry it forward. Right. So what’s at risk here is culture. And so, the work you You’ve done up to this point that clearly defining this horizon, clearly defining that your message, helping everyone, help them everyone know what your message is. So if you understand clearly, I think the biggest thing for the marketing. The secret at this point is that if someone on your, your delivery team or your fulfillment team can tell the customer a very similar explanation of what you do that you do, when you’re in that sales, when you convince them to come on board, they’re going to get handed off in for them to hear the same rhythm, that’s the same tune. Right? The same refrain is powerful, I think it is. And that’s where you’re in the branding area, that’s where you’re in the positioning area is, it’s sinking in, down into the organization, but where does it come from? It comes from doing the work of wanting to that point on the horizon, and making it really clear where we’re going, then then this new person that comes in, you’re handing the baton off, is not going to take it off in another direction, that’s when you lose a lot of your team when they go, I don’t like the new guy. Okay?
Scott Ritzheimer
So true. And we can keep going here. But I really wanted to dial into these first few stages, because I think it’s so important. And I love how you’ve drawn out like there’s different strategies for each of these stages. And it’s so important. If you’re going out, you’re looking for someone to help you with marketing. You’re looking for someone to help you with whatever HR branding, PR, accounting, whatever it may be, you’ve got to make sure that you’re working with people who understand your stage, right? Because you ask the vast majority of marketing folks, and they’re not going to give you such a clear answer and delineation. It’s this is what we had the success for this guy, you do it that guy did and you’ll be great as well. What stage was that guy? Right? And nobody knows. So I love that. Now, if we were to kind of take that and boil it all down and just say what’s the big secret, right? You know, the Steve ROI Brown, big secret that you’d have to share that you would want folks to walk away from this knowing what would it be.
Steve Brown
So you’re designing an operating system for your organization, your company, your team. Think of it as an operating system. And it you know, when I look at marketing, what I’m building are four things. And number one is clear messaging, it’s so powerful, it’s the biggest lever that you can do in its it’s going to bake into everything you do, just like we talked about. Second, you have to think of sales automation. Remember that first stage sales. So you’re setting up a operating system for sales, obviously, you need materials, but eventually that comes into technology, because you have to expand your that’s a beautiful, beautiful thing about technology, it takes what you do, and helps you expand your your, your your control or what’s influence, then, then it’s marketing. Same thing, you’re going to take that same messaging that helped you do sales, it’s going to help you start marketing in addition to new folks. But there’s a technology piece. And then once you get that in place, that means you like if you get a lead, you’re able to follow up on a track document and figure out what your Predictable Revenue is right? And then your marketing is like how many leads do we need to introduce to the sale system to get a new new piece of business? And then you start thinking strategy, strategic campaigns and anything you do in strategy, any campaign needs to lead to a landing page in where in your, in your marketing and sales automation platform. So it’s like ice, you know, like on your phone, you have an operating system. Okay, and what do you do you download the apps that are relevant to you personalized to you. And you go through your day you manage your day, same thing in your business, you get a base core operating system, but it’s you got to have a concept of clear messaging, some technology to facilitate it and then think strategic campaigns.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. Fantastic. I love that clear messaging, sales automation, then you focus on your marketing, and then getting real strategic and defining holding up. That’s fantastic. So well, let’s do this. Let’s have you take off your consultant hat here for a moment. Right. I’m gonna have you put on your CEO hat right then and now we’re moving to just CEO Steve Brown, of ROI. And online, what I’d love for you to do is just share with us, what are you doing right now? What’s the next stage of growth look like for you and your business?
Steve Brown
So, here Here’s where there’s a paradigm shift that happened for me. You know, we’re in this, what do they call it, the great resignation. And, you know, everybody’s complaining about employees, and they can’t get enough for him don’t know where to find them, there’s really struggling for it. And then you have employees leaving toxic organizations that you aren’t used to working at home, they’re considering being independent doing something on their own? Well, when you think about a small business, you only have a certain amount of budget for your team that you bring on board. And I think right now is an awesome time for you to consider virtual assistants off shore. And it’s amazing. When you think about, let’s say, you were to hire an in house, very, you know, a very good marketing director for your company when you’re going to spend minimum 70,000k. If not way more. But if you were inclined, you could, you could expect to have maybe six full time people to think of how that changes your expectation. You mean, I can have six people instead of one people? One person, you know, one person, you’re arranging your resources? Well, I’ll have to wait until this one pays off to get more resources to go this way. When when you can have six, five, or whatever, then it’s like, wow, I can go faster. And I think this is a paradigm shift that needs to happen with with you well, or how can they really work from, you know, just remote? Well, here we are having a conversation via zoom? Yep. All my set? All my clients are out of Amarillo. Well, I will say that most of my clients are out of where I am. I’m clients in Kansas City in Tahoe, in in zakra. You know, I have them everywhere. And why can’t I have employees? Well, I do. We’re a remote team now. Yeah, we were kind of forced into a thing we were able to quit quickly acclimate. I think it is something that if you think about your competitors, they’re going to be resistant to it. But if you can adopt it, and start employing folks and get them unique, it’s amazing how it changes what your expectations are, that you can do with the resources that you have in your budget.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. Fantastic. So that’s something that you’re leveraging right now is working with a virtual team. And that’s your next stage of growth.
Steve Brown
Yes, yes. Well, and so I’m helping businesses pair with a virtual assistant. So here’s the traditional model, hey, hire my high powered team to do white glove service for your company. Or you get set up in my operating system, the Grow stack, and I’ll pair you with a virtual assistant full time, less than my agency fee. And you can get most of that work done. Right there. That’s crazy.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yes. So tell us a little about because I know this is an exciting project for you tell us about what growth stack is. And because I think that’s a key part of why this whole VA thing makes sense. So just quickly, for those who are saying, hey, I need help with marketing, I need stage specific help with my marketing, I need to sell more, how to what is growth stack? How does it help and then tie that out with that with a VA for us?
Steve Brown
Yeah, so in my book, you know, we talked about the four things, right? Well, that’s a the I call that concept, the growth stack. You know, you we have these, you and I have a talent stack that make us unique from our past experiences, while I grow stack is you take what you’re unique about your company, and you stack it on top of technology. And then you add strategy to that that’s a grow stack. Well, now well, if you’re you’re a business, you have to have you have to have a website, you probably have to have some sort of like MailChimp, you have a chat bot, you have you have all these little different programs that you try to Frankenstein a system to, you know, so you have a CRM, well, does that connect with your website? I have active campaign well does that connect with your CRM, that’s, that’s what’s at risk here. picking the wrong tools that don’t communicate the growth stack, the ROI growth stack is a SaaS product that you can sign up for that has all in one, all the things that you need, as a small business, to get all that technology settled in and out Out of the way, think of it as an operating system for your cell phone. The growth stack is a literal software that does that has a CRM as your marketing automation as your chat bot, you can run campaigns. It’s just, it’s beautiful, but it’s all inclusive. And so what happens is, your salesperson works in it. Your your marketing person works in it, you look in it, because you want to see the dashboard, see the reports, what’s happening, how much how much revenue, can we predict that’s coming in the next couple of months, you have ways to communicate with people in Facebook or Instagram, you know, you have a waiting, the robots will follow up, if you missed a call. It’s really, that’s all awesome. And, and you’re a small business, you can’t wear all those hats. And you need some technology, again, to expand your your capabilities. And it’s just a beautiful tool.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s awesome. So for a fraction of what you’d normally pay under an old agency model, we can get into this tool that really automates and significantly increases the ease that we can do this to the point where you hire a talented VA overseas, again, for fraction of the price of of what we pay for labor here, great money for them, right moving them up in the world. And it’s just as went all the way around. It’s fantastic. How do we how do we find out about growth stack someone saying yes, I want to know more? Where do they go?
Steve Brown
So we have a website that will soon be launched growthstackcrm.com.com Obviously, my website roionline.com, you can reach me there and we can talk about it, I have show you around in it. That’s the easiest way. Obviously, I’m on LinkedIn and and other places. But I would start there.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s great. Now, we’ve talked about your book a couple of times, but we’ve not actually said what it is. So give us the title of your book, and tell us where we can find it.
Steve Brown
So the title of the book is the golden toilet, flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And so I wanted to title that you just didn’t need to go What was that title again? And there it is. And I think that the golden toilets a universal symbol that emitted immediately communicate wasted money. And what’s the biggest fear that a small business owner has wasting money on this vulnerable area that they have to get their act together? Yeah. And that’s online.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yep. So good. So talking about clear messaging, I dare you to hear the title, the golden toilet and not read the book. So believe you wouldn’t find on Amazon. Basically, where you buy books, right? We’ll put a link in the, excuse me the show notes. And again, I’ve read it, it’s fantastic. It’s written for people in the real world, right? It’s not one of these fancy shmancy, you know, in despite the fact that a golden toilet would be awfully fancy. It’s, it’s not that so? Well, Steve, thank you so much for being on. Just appreciate what you do for entrepreneurs, so thankful for you coming onto the show and sharing with us today. And again, the thing that I love about this conversation and that I really want folks to take away from it is make sure you know that you’re working with people who know your stage, especially with marketing is such a big world. There’s so many different names for it, you’re probably not a pro at it. And so you can eliminate a lot of the headaches and hassles by making sure you find someone like Steve. I mean, he’s here He knows your stuff. Just go to Steve, but find somebody regardless of what you’re looking for. When you find a coach, make sure you find someone that can help in your stage. And so with that, Steve, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.
Steve Brown
Man. I’m proud to be here. I enjoyed this conversation. You and I had a great conversation on my podcast. And I really looked forward to this. But Scott, you’re a great interviewer.
Scott Ritzheimer
Awesome. Well, it’s my pleasure. Thank you everyone for being here. We’re so excited to have the opportunity to share with us your time and attention mean more than the world to us. Thank you so much, and we look forward to seeing you next time. Until then. Take care
Contact Steve Brown
Steve Brown has 10 years of internet marketing and business development experience and is the managing member of ROI Online, LLC in Amarillo, Texas. ROI Online is an internet marketing agency geared towards small to medium-sized businesses and organizations and specializes in helping clients plan and execute a successful internet marketing strategy.
The founder of ROI Online, a HubSpot platinum agency partner. He also hosts The ROI Podcast and has written “The Golden Toilet,” where he shares his golden tips for marketing your business rather than flushing it down the toilet with website costs. Steve’s goal? As an entrepreneur himself is to help set you for success with the right strategies for the modern world of marketing.
Want to learn more about Steve and his work? Visit https://www.growthstackcrm.com. You can also grab a copy of his book “The Golden Toilet” on Amazon or wherever you buy books!