In this gold mine of an episode, Paige Arnoff-Fenn, founder and CEO of Mavens & Moguls, shares nugget after nugget after nugget of sounds wisdom for CEOs of companies of all sizes.
She shares the power of focusing on what you do best and building a community of supporters around to to carry everything else.
Scott Ritzheimer
Hello, everybody Hello and welcome once again to the secrets of the high demand coach podcast. And I’m here with a brand new friend of mine, the one and only page on offense. She’s the founder and CEO of mavens and moguls, which is a global branding and digital marketing firm whose clients range from early stage startups to Fortune 500 companies, you and I are going to have a fantastic conversation about that, including Colgate virgin, Microsoft, New York Times Company, all of them, right. And she was formerly the VP of Marketing at Zipcar and VP of [email protected]. Two names that we’ve all heard of. And prior to that, she held the title of SVP marketing at launch media, which was an internet startup that later sold to Yahoo. So wow, welcome to the show. Paige, I’m so glad that you’re here. I’d love to start off with just hearing the rest of the story. How did you get into what you’re doing? How do you make that transition from VP marketing to doing what you do now? Helping others?
Paige Arnof-Fenn
Well, Scott, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here today. Yeah, it’s been a very circuitous route. When I graduated from business school, I joined Procter and Gamble, which is kind of like the mecca of marketing the biggest consumer products company in the world. They invented the concept of brand management. They’re number one or number two, and or maybe one and two. In every category. They compete at Charmin toilet paper Bounty paper towels, Pantene shampoo, I mean, you name it, they are tied, breast, they are the top in every category. So I really learned about marketing at the, at the Mecca at the very center of power, which was a great foundation. And I spent the first three and a half years of my career there. I also was the Assistant Chief Marketing Officer at Coca Cola, which is the most recognized brand in the world. So the first chapter of my marketing career was really in big fortune 500 corporate marketing gigs. Then my next chapter, I was the head of marketing at three dot coms three internet, you know, venture backed startups. One was in Los Angeles, two here in Boston, where I am now. They all either went public were sold, or both. So I call them my three base hits. I made a little money three times, but I did not work for Google or Facebook, or, you know, LinkedIn or any of the one, you know, I’m not Sheryl Sandberg, I didn’t make $2 billion. But I made a little money three times. And that was great. And then about 20 years ago, I started my own company, I got a Shingo mavens a moguls. And we’re, like you said, a virtual marketing department for companies that need access to great marketing talent on an outsourced as needed basis. So that’s kind of how I got here. Like I said, it makes sense looking back, but at the time, I had no idea the path I’d be on.
Scott Ritzheimer
And I love that. So let’s let’s dive in here a little bit. Because for, you know, it’s rare to find someone who is equally capable in the entrepreneurial startup world, and the fortune 500. Right. And, you know, it’s obvious again, looking back on it, that your experiences would bring both of those to bear but how is how is it different? I would say, first and foremost, working in those two spaces, what do you find are the big differences.
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So it’s interesting when I was in my corporate life, I realized now looking back, I was very, I was always trying to bend break or change the rules. I was not a rule follower at all. And I always thought of myself as like a future Meg Whitman, I was gonna be a fortune 500 CEO, and run a big multinational corporation. That was the path I thought I was on when I went to business school. Now looking back, I’m amazed I was as successful as I was in that corporate part of my life. Because like I said, I was always the one my bosses would all tell you she’s really smart. I energy can do what God is she a pain in the ass like, you give her an assignment? And she never just accepts it at face value she’s always trying to be what about this? Have you thought about that? Wouldn’t this be a great idea? Maybe we should try this. Now I realized I was very intrapreneurial in a corporate setting. So I think the seeds of this were in me all along, but I didn’t recognize it. As I thought I wanted to be Meg Whitman. So that’s kind of funny now that I had all that kind of corporate training, the hierarchy, the process, all the training. I think it’s made me a much better entrepreneur because I have that foundation. I have the grounding. I did all the training. in companies that really invest in you and develop you, as a manager as a leader. And so now, I know the shortcuts you can take to save money to save time, you know, at p&g, to do market research would easily take six, nine, even 12 months to put a survey out into the market, it had to be statistically significant. You know, you had to track and measure and slice and dice. My clients, two thirds of them are early stage to emerging market firms 2 million to 200 million in revenue, they don’t have six to 912 months, if they did, the market would have changed so much, it would be completely irrelevant. So we’re throwing out Survey Monkey Zoomerang, we’re doing quick and dirty research. And we’re constantly iterating and pivoting and learning and tweaking. And that’s what my clients have to do to be successful. But honestly, I think if I were back at those big corporate jobs today, I think they’re having to be scrappy or two, I don’t think they can take that kind of time anymore. Internet time affects everybody. So I think kind of a long winded answer to your very tight question. I think my corporate life made me a better entrepreneur. And my entrepreneurial life was always buried deep inside. I just didn’t recognize it at the time.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, that’s fascinating. Now, you’ve had plenty of experience in this, I think you’ve been doing it somewhere around 20 years, you’ve been leading your organization there, and then the season career before that. So what mistakes do you see folks making, here’s one of the patterns that I see, I’m going to ask this in two different ways. But one of the patterns that I see for young entrepreneurial organizations is to go out and like find a professional. And that comes across all kinds of different, you know, ways and shapes and channels, it could be a professional accountant, it could be a professional, you know, marketing person, it could be a professional recruiter, whatever it may be. And they see Coca Cola on their website, or they see, you know, Procter and Gamble on their website, and they think this person must know their stuff. But then it doesn’t work, right. A lot of times, you know, those folks who succeed in those larger environments, you know, try to stuffed them into shoes that don’t necessarily fit, did you? You know, and feel free to answer this however you’d like. But what mistakes do you see people making trying to apply the world of big business to entrepreneurs.
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So, you know, I think part of the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial journey is making mistakes, and learning from them and pivoting and getting smarter and better with every twist and turn. So I am a big believer, not just because I am someone who companies can outsource to, but I outsource the things that are not core to my strengths. I don’t do my own accounting, I don’t do my own bookkeeping. I don’t do you know, I have a web developer that built my website. So if it’s not something that you love doing that you’re great at, that’s a great use of your time and skill set. bring in people that do it, that love it, you can pay them get out of the way. And they will, you know, I don’t do my own payroll, I outsource that. It really does save me time and money, so that I can put all my energy into the things that are really my personal strengths, where I can hit the ball out of the park every time. So I do think it is important to know what you’re good at. And hire around your weaknesses and bring in partners who you can outsource to so that you can just scale and grow as quickly as possible without making those rookie mistakes.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, that’s fantastic. And again, kind of taking this entrepreneurial world what what mistakes are you seeing if we were kind of zoom into like right now? What are the what do you think are the big mistakes that folks are making with their marketing?
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So the biggest mistake right now, we’ve all been through a lot these past two and a half years, whatever assumptions you made about your business before the pandemic, whatever research you did, however, business was conducted, you know, before March of 2020, is kind of irrelevant now. And you just think about your own habits and practices. You know, where you work, how you work, where you shop, what you buy, what you wear, where you vacation, like everything about our lives has been upended. So the the single kind of biggest piece of advice I give everybody my clients and anybody who asked my opinion is you have got to do market research now. with your audience, with the gatekeepers with their decision makers, with everyone in the food chain, because you cannot assume you know anything about what’s what’s going through their head, who your competitors are, what they’re willing to pay, how they want it packaged anything. So market research today is more important now than ever. And you just you can’t assume anything. So you need to test and learn. That that I think is the biggest disconnect that a lot of people make mistakes, they say, Oh, well, let’s just do this, or it used to work or let’s, you know, let’s try this, you’re gonna save yourself a lot of time and money. If you ask good questions, and don’t lead the witness. The problem with research is, some clients come to me and say, you know, we’ve done research, and people just love our idea. They love it. I don’t understand why they’re not buying more of it. And I said, Oh, well tell me about your research. And they’ll say, Well, I talked to my friend, my neighbor, my mother, my, you know, my cousin, they all just think it’s great. Well, guess what, that’s not research. Those people love you. And they don’t want to hurt your feelings, they will never tell you your baby’s ugly, that is just not the way it works. So make sure you’re you’ve either brought in an independent third party, who can really get to the bottom of it. But make sure if you’re using Zoomerang, or Survey Monkey trying to do it on the cheap, ask the questions in a very objective way. Because if you’re leading the witness, you’re not it’s garbage in garbage out, you are not going to get good data back, you know, tell me all the things you love about my product? How does this service help you save time and money? Well, who’s gonna give you bad feedback? If you’re asking them in a way, and you’re kind of, you know, egging them on? That is not research. So be careful with that.
Scott Ritzheimer
So good. And I think what’s fascinating is we do the opposite, right? When the pressure turns up, when things get chaotic, we double down on what we think we know, right? We double down on maybe even what the past data said. And it feels like so many things are changing, that it’s almost scary to admit that these fundamental ideas, these fundamental assumptions are wrong as well. Absolutely. What What kind of advice do you give to folks as they’re starting out on that process, and it feels a little overwhelming and intimidating.
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So you know, you have to do it step by step, bite by bite, you know, break it down into pieces. And ultimately, again, what we’ve learned in this pandemic over the last two and a half years, is you do not exist unless you have an online presence. So whether you’re a brick and mortar company or not, you have to show up online. When people Google you, what did they find, you know, make sure you Google yourself, and see if there’s any digital dirt out there. Because you need to know what people are finding out about you. But the single most important thing is that you have a really great reputation online. So I always tell people being invisible is a terrible strategy today. You have to you have to show up online. And make sure if you’re big on social media, that all your platforms and profiles, tell a consistent story to the website. If you’re really snarky on Twitter, and you’re kind of like a partier on Facebook, and you’re trying to be real buttoned up on LinkedIn. And that you know, and a comedian on your website, that is very confusing, and you are not building trust with your audience. They don’t know which version of us is going to show up. So really, you got to clean up well, online, you need to tell a consistent story. And it needs to reflect really what the essence of your core values and your brand are. And you can’t stand for everything. Don’t pick 10 Things you want to be known for pick like one or two, and just reinforce it in everything that you do. And is that that is just like a nugget that you can take to the bank.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, it really is. It’s fantastic advice. So tell us who needs outsourced marketing, right. And like who would you suggest that’s important to? And then the second part of it is what do they try before they they bring in somebody?
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So great question. So I had a marketing professor in grad school that said, marketing is everything. and everything is marketing. And I used to laugh at that. But now that I’ve been doing it for, like, 30 years, I think he’s right. You know, again, you don’t exist unless people think about you, if they, if they have a problem that your product or service will help them solve, and they don’t think of you first. It’s a missed opportunity. So, you know, as you said, in my intro, we work with everything from early stage startups to Fortune 500, everybody needs a great story, they need the right words and pictures, to attract the right audience. So that, you know, they can sell more of their stuff, that’s the name of the game. So you know, a lot of times people do try and go it alone. And they can be successful in small ways, or in big ways. Usually, when people pick up the phone, they, they need help with a couple of things, either their messages, their logo, you know, their tagline, their website, kind of everything under the marketing, communications, maybe they need help with market research, really getting into the heads and hearts of who their customer is. And maybe they just need better publicity, they need PR, they need to be out there saying, Look at me, look at me, think of me, call me getting quoted, you know, showing up in articles online, being interviewed writing articles showing up at conferences, contributing to other people’s blogs. So those are really the reasons why somebody reaches out picks up the phone or drops me an email. And like I said, they may be able to do some of that on their own. But you know, with PR, you really do need people that understand how to pitch media. It rarely makes sense for someone to bring it in house, their own publicist, a really good publicity person, I always say it’s not an expense, it’s an investment is for not a lot of money. That person can, you know, work the phones and work the computer and bring in a lot of attention. You get quoted, you know, online, on television, on the radio at a conference, every one of those media heads is going to you know, you put it on your website, it attracts attention, it draws traffic. And that helps you convert people and shorten your sales cycle. So if you’re if you hire a good publicist, and I only work with people that are really good, it really is a great return on the investment. Because if you’re spending call 5000 a month on PR, and you’re bringing in a couple of new clients every month, that’s worth way more than five grand a month to you. You could be bringing in $10-20-30,000 of business from a knock, you know, from being quoted and being out there. So it more than pays for itself.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, that’s fantastic. All right. So this is the moment we’ve all been waiting for. Right? And that is the moment where we get to hear your biggest secret and and as I’ve done several of these episodes, now, I’ve realized that it’s the biggest secret that we all wish wasn’t a secret. And so I’d love for you to share. What’s that one thing that you want our folks listening today founders leaders that are wanting to grow their organizations, what’s that one biggest secret that you wish that they knew?
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So I think you don’t have to know everything, and you don’t have to solve every problem yourself. When you’re the leader, when it’s your idea, your vision, you can have a great concept. You can bring that idea to life. But you aren’t going to be able to dot every I and cross every T on your own. It’s all about kind of who you know, and who you bring along on your team. And I think the best entrepreneurs, the best CEOs I know, are magnets for great talent, either internally or in their kind of network. They know who to call, they know who to bring in, they know who to ask the tough questions. And they have people who are cheerleaders and butt kickers and you know, they’ve got an ecosystem around them so that they can be successful. And I think a lot of people you know, it’s lonely at the top. When you’re when you’re at the CEO level and you probably feel this to Scott. You know, there are days where you wake up and you’re like beating your head against the wall, like why can’t I figure this out? But you can’t figure out everything on your own but there are a lot of great resources out there. And you know, sometimes the people that you start with are not the ones that are going to Bro with you indefinitely. So you know, you may have mentors, or people that were part of your founding team that are not as good at scaling, or not as good once you get bigger, you know, and so you just have to trust that you’re building the right ecosystem around you to kind of be successful at every one of those stages. And like you we work with people from small metal, you know, large, extra large, and they’re different challenges, and it’s different skill sets.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah. Yeah, it’s so so very true. You know, one of the things that I tell a lot of my clients is a loan takes a long time. It’s me, okay, maybe you can do it. Right. But should you do it? And is that really what’s in your best interest. So that’s excellent advice. I’m so appreciative that you share that with us. Now, I’ve worked with enough coaches and advisors and you know, did my time in marketing as well. And I know that, you know, we have a tendency to spend all our time and our best energy on helping our clients, but can do so at the expense of our own business. So I’m gonna have you take off your advisor, head here, your marketer hat, and I’m gonna have you put on your CEO hat. And tell us for just a moment what the next phase of growth looks like, for you and your business.
Paige Arnof-Fenn
Wow. I mean, you know, if there’s anything that I’ve learned in the last two and a half years, is that all bets are off. I have no idea what the future holds. But I’m confident that we built a great foundation, I’ve got an awesome team, I’ve got an awesome base of business. And we’ve been very scrappy, and resourceful, we’ve added a lot of new tools to the toolkit. And I feel very bullish and optimistic that we are going to be relevant for years to come. You know, I’m in my mid 50s, and I don’t see concept of retirement doesn’t really appeal to me, I think I’m gonna be doing this for a lot longer. And as long as I’m having fun, I think good things are gonna happen. So, you know, my CEO hat is, you know, you’ve got to, you’ve got to have a growth mindset. And you’ve got to just continue to learn and experiment, and make mistakes and pivot. Because that’s where you have the most fun, that’s where you learn a lot. And that’s where you really figure out what the next new things gonna be.
Scott Ritzheimer
Yeah, oh, I love that. It’s such an interesting dynamic of, you know, we want to figure the world out, right? We want to know the answer. But so much of it is exploring the journey as it comes. As Excellent. Now, I know that some of our listeners are sitting there thinking like market research, you know, we’ve never done market research. And we always thought that it was this big six, nine month thing. And sitting here listening, they’re like, Oh, I’ve been doing that I’ve been making these assumptions, and they’re not working out. So if that’s the case, how can someone get in touch with you and learn more?
Paige Arnof-Fenn
So the two best places is number one, my website: www.MavensAndMoguls.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn, Paige Arnof-Fenn. And as one of my clients said to me, she never can remember, you know, I have a hyphenated last name and ampersand and the company name she Google’s page and mavens, and I pop right up. So thank God for search engine optimization. So you know, with a name like mine, I’m pretty easy to find. It’s not like Jane Smith. So when you Google me, you kind of really do find me. So again, figure out what your digital dirt says. If what? What comes up isn’t good. You’re in trouble.
Scott Ritzheimer
That’s a lesson right there. Oh, fantastic. So www.MavensAndMoguls.com. You can find page on LinkedIn. I’m sure she’d be happy to help and contribute in any way that she can. Paige, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it.
Paige Arnof-Fenn
Well, thank you for having me. It’s been so fun chatting with you, Scott.
Scott Ritzheimer
Indeed, indeed. And to everyone listening again, we said all the time, but your time and attention are the biggest honor that you can give us and so thanks for spending time with us today. We hope I hope it had as big an impact on you as it did on me. And to each of you. We hope to see you next time. Take care
Contact Paige Arnof-Fenn
Paige Arnof-Fenn is the founder and CEO of Mavens & Moguls, a global branding and digital marketing firm whose clients range from early stage start-up to Fortune 500 companies including Colgate, Virgin, Microsoft and The New York Times Company. She was formerly VP Marketing at Zipcar and VP Marketing at Inc.com. Prior to that she held the title of SVP Marketing at Launch Media, an Internet start-up that was later sold to Yahoo.
Arnof-Fenn has also worked as a special assistant to the chief marketing officer of global marketing at The Coca-Cola Company and held the position of director of the 1996 Olympic Commemorative Coin Program at the Department of Treasury.
Arnof-Fenn is a founding Board member of Women Entrepreneurs in Science & Technology and she is the past Board Chair of the Alumni Board of Stanford University. She was the Appointed Director for Harvard Business School on the Harvard Alumni Association Board, which governs all the schools across the university. She is also the former Vice President of the Harvard Business School Global Alumni Board and the only woman Chair of the Board of Trustees of the Sports Museum at the Boston Garden, is an advisor to several early stage private companies and non profit organizations and is also a 3 time past president of the Stanford Club of New England which serves alumni in a 5 state region. She holds an undergraduate degree in economics from Stanford University and an MBA from Harvard Business School.
Want to learn more about Paige’s work at Mavens and Moguls? Check out her website at www.MavensAndMoguls.com.